Sunday, December 12, 2010
Friends
So in section 17, Chris talks with Gordie about friends and how they can "hold you back." Do you guys think that Chris is right about Gordie in comparison with the rest of the guys? Also, do you think his idea still holds true today? And in what way do you see it? This one is more about human nature in general than about the book specifically, but if you can draw parallels from the story then go ahead, especially for the first part.
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I think friends can easily hold people back both indirectly and directly. I was just rereading the posts made after mine on the previous "Gordie" blog, and I noticed that Dennis seems to have unintentionally held back Gordon. Even though Dennis himself was a good older brother and did not do anything to harm Gordon, by being such a great child and a miracle, his parents forgot about Gordon many times and did not pay as much attention to their younger son as they should have.
ReplyDeleteKids can also be held back intentionally by friends very easily as seen with a kid telling his friend they should skip school together, when one friend tells the other to not do his homework but play a game instead, etc.
This problem definitely holds true today, but a quick question I have for the rest of you is do you think if a friend is holding you back (by, for example, having you play Call of Duty with him instead of doing homework) you should be friends with this person anymore? Is it wrong for your 'friend' to do this to you, even if they just want to have some fun and don't mean to make your grades worse? Or, is it your responsibility to be able to say 'No.' to a friend and make sure he cannot hold you back?
Tell me what you think :].
In response to Anthony's question, I think that you can still be friends with someone like that, but you have to learn when the right time is to say no. You have to meet in the middle and do things that you both can do. If the other person can't do that, then your friendship will naturally start to grow apart. But it is your responsibility to say no to a friend unintentionally holding you back. It isn't wrong on your friend's part, but you have to let him know what the situation is.
ReplyDeleteIn response to Dan's question, I think that Chris was right. Gordan is bound to move onto bigger and better things, and unfortunately his friends can't take the same path. It's noone's fault; it happens. And this definitely happens in the real world, all the time. The example with intellegence works best. If your friends are in Standard classes, and you can make Honors, your friends are going to want for you to stay back. It's up to you to be able to say no, and to not let anyone hold you back.
And maybe for another question: Can other people besides your friends hold you back? Who does, and in what ways do they?
As to Steady's comment about Dennis, he brings up a great point, but I have to disagree slightly. I think that Gordie's parents obsession with Dennis actually helped him to grow and mature more quickly than he might have without him. If Dennis hadn't been there, Gordie's parents might have babied him and given him everything he wanted without him having to take any initiative. I think that being in Dennis' shadow forced Gordie to do things on his own, and take responsibility for his own wants and needs.
ReplyDeleteAs for Steady's question, I agree with Andrew, that if you are truly friends with someone you can still be friends despite differences that you may have. It is slightly more difficult however. Like Andrew says, you have to know when to say no and the other person, if they are a true friend, has to understand that and be able to recognize your differences. This point also leads into my question a little bit. I have to disagree with Andrew. I think the fact that Chris is able to recognize that Gordie should be on a different track than him and the rest of the kids is a sign that they will be able to continue their friendship despite their differences in academics. By telling Gordie this, Chris is showing that he understands, like I talked about before, that sometimes Gordie will have to say "no." Chris realizes this and I think that he will find a way to accept Gordie's different path and stay close friends. I can't say much about the other kids, because we haven't really gotten to know them that well yet, but judging by their tight friendship, they probably feel the same way.
As for Andrew's question, I think anybody can hold you back, even people you may trust, like in Chris' case, where the teacher stole his returned money. However, I think that the people who would tend to hold you back the most are friends, because no matter what they do, you have known them for a long time, and it is hard to break the friendship that you may have with that person. Although you may realize that what they're doing is not the way you want to go, you just don't want to lose that bond.
And by the way, Andy is cool. And Gordie a little. And now Chris too.
I do agree that friends can hold eachother back. Gordie demonstrated his creativity with the little sections that were solely devoted to his writing. Even though the entire thing is overly-sexual, juvenile, and basically terrible, Gordie is creative. You have to give him that. He wants to be a writer, but he's friends with the type of people who might make fun of writing. He says he doesn't do poetry because it isn't manly. He only got that impression from his friends, the same friends who are holding him back. He only writes the overly-sexual and juvenile stuff because he thinks it's cool. He may have written something good if his friends weren't so interested in that kind of stuff, but you have to keep in mind they're twelve. They're going to hold Gordie back to some extent, but it's not like they're going to be his downfall.
ReplyDeleteThat ties in with Anthony's question but I believe the answer is complicated. If it's something as simple as a friend wanting to play Call of Duty rather than doing homework, then no, I don't believe you should stop being friends with that person. However, if it's something more serious, such as your friends telling you to skip school so you two can go on a road trip to Vegas where you will do drugs with prostitutes before heading to Compton in the pursuit of a gangster lifestyle, then you should not be friends with that person. It all depends on the influence and where you draw the line. Personally, I find it easy to say no and I can do so in a way that doesn't offend. Some people can't do that as easily. Anthony's question is much more a matter of personality and there is no concrete answer. I agree with Andrew's comment on how bonds will naturally grow apart because of such differences.
And in response to Andrew's question, many people can influence you in any decision you make. Your parents, teachers, other peers who you wouldn't consider friends, everybody influences your decision. If your friends think it would be funny to take your shirt off in the middle of class, you wouldn't do it because there are other people there. Maybe they're holding you back from expressing your true feelings, I don't know. But seeing others succeed while you're having trouble may hold you back because you question why you're not doing as well. This applies in anything you do. So yes, other people besides friends can hold you back.
In response to Dan, I disagree. Dennis' death did not help Gordie to mature because Gordie was, at least to some extent, neglected by them. While the argument could be made that that helped him to grow into his own person, he grew up around kids. Immature twelve year olds, to be specific, and immature twelve year olds don't help each other grow and mature.
So yeah, in conclusion, Andy's a cool guy, Gordie's cool too but slightly less and Chris is getting there.
Chris is definitely right in saying Gordon's friends "drag him down." Gordon clearly has more potential to succeed in life than his friends, judging by his writing - unlike Nick, I think his little stories are pretty good, considering Gordon's background; I don't see many lower-class kids writing stories as well as Gordon (plus, that overly-sexual, juvenile, terrible content in his stories hold important elements of Gordon's life - ideas in his stories such as family dysfunction and vengefulness aren't as bad as you might think). The problem is that Gordon is letting his friends influence him too much when he should be following his own path. Teddy, for example, makes fun of the name "Gretna" that Gordon comes up with for the town in his story, and Gordon ends up feeling that the name is pretty stupid. This shows how his friends' influence is negatively affecting Gordon. If Gordon doesn't listen to Chris, his friendship with the others may be in a better condition but it will be at the expense of Gordon's future.
ReplyDeleteAs for Dennis, I don't think he dragged Gordon down at all. Whether Dennis hogged all the attention away from Gordon or not, neither outcome would have made a clear improvement to Gordon's character. Whatever happened happened, and it is what made Gordon who he is. I do think the neglect that Gordon experienced benefited him to an extent, even making him a bit more mature. Nick said:
"Dennis' death did not help Gordie to mature because Gordie was, at least to some extent, neglected by them. While the argument could be made that that helped him to grow into his own person, he grew up around kids. Immature twelve year olds, to be specific, and immature twelve year olds don't help each other grow and mature."
To which I disagree. First of all, it isn't so much Dennis' death as it is the attention Dennis got from their parents, both dead and alive. Also, the fact that Gordon spends a lot of time with his "immature" friends (I actually think Chris is more mature than Gordon, and is even making Gordon a bit more mature ["dragging down" advice]) does not make Dennis responsible for anything that results from that. Gordon could very well have grown more independent and mature from the treatment he received from his parents. It must take some kind of maturity to tolerate such parental negligence, and I agree that it kept him from being "babied", as Dennis was (to an extent). Gordon demonstrates his maturity in his interaction with his father. Even when his father insults his friends, Gordon manages to keep his composure. He would probably react a bit differently if his father had always babied and paid attention to him.
Isn't the fact the Gordie uses his friends for inspiration for his stories show that they enhance his life, instead of hold him back. Also, all those boys have had pasts that cause much of their disfunction. It seems wrong to shun them for it.
ReplyDeleteIn the movie, Chris is by far the best character. He's played by River Phoenix.