So I guess we'll start out kind of like we did with Shawshank. What do you guys think of Gordie so far? Just share any opinions you have of him, either as a character or the narrator, either will work.
I think that, for the most part, Gordie is reliable. However, on some of the things about his life, I think he's exaggerating. He explains on pages 310 and 311 on mine and Montgomery's books how he interacts with his parents, or rather, how he doesn't. At a young age, he asked his parents to "pass those goddamn spuds" and nobody paid attention to him. His mother talked to his brother about his Aunt calling for them. Later comes another slightly unbelievable story. He mentions that when his brother was fourteen, he was four. So, when his brother graduated high school, he was eighteen, making Gordie eight. Gordie says that he stayed home and drank a half bottle of cheap wine. At eight years old, I really doubt that Gordie drank a half bottle of cheap wine.
Even though he's at least somewhat reliable as a narrator, I think he's a bit troubled in that he just wants to be accepted. His parents, if what he said is at least somewhat true, didn't pay much attention to him. Perhaps all they really did was pass the butter at dinnertime. And maybe he didn't drink when he was eight, but by the time a few years had gone by maybe he tried a sip or a bit more. Either way, that, combined with his frequent swearing, makes me believe that he's an immature person who is just trying to fit in with the crowd. His group of friends aren't the smartest bunch in the world, so that doesn't help make Gordie a good kid.
Overall, I'd say that Gordie isn't really a cool guy. Kinda sorta. Not like Andy. Andy's a pretty cool guy.
I think that Gordan is just one of those average kids. His life is equally affected by his friends and family. Like any kid, he wanted a lot of attention, so maybe he had gottem more than he said, but it didnt seem like enough to him. His brother was going into college when Gordan was only in grade school. Naturally, his parents would spend a bit more attention to the older brother
I wouldnt say that Gordon was too immature. Hanging out with his friends made him do some pretty dumb stuff, but I think that he is a good kid on the inside. Like when he pulled Teddy back from the train. He seems accepted into his group of friends, so I dont see any trouble with acceptence. All of the kids had problems with family, it seemed back then, and compared with them, Gordan didnt have it too bad. He probably just doesnt understand the impact of his brother's death has had on his parents. He is still only a kid, and doesnt understand much. He is naturally going to be a little immature. Despite all the bad influences and events in his life, Gordan seems to have come out all right, so far, and has a decent idea of what's wrong and right.
Even though Gordan is a decent kid, there's no way he can compare to Andy. Andy was just a cool guy all around
I'm going to have to say I disagree with Nick because I think that Gordan does not exaggerate with his stories. While Nick seems to feel that him asking his parents to "pass those goddamn spuds" is impossible, I think that kids often try to push there parents to see what they can get away with, which is exactly what Gordan said he was doing. While it may not be something like "goddamn spuds, it could be as simple as saying crap, shut up, I hate you, etc. and seeing how one's parents react.
I find it interesting that Andrew pointed out how he doesn't feel that Gordan understands the effect that his brother's death has had on Gordan's parents. This interests me because I think Andrew is completely wrong, and I believe the exact opposite. I think that Gordan knows exactly how his parents feel, but he is hiding this from the reader, and also from his friends, and even himself. Gordan loved his brother and can vividly remember a scene of his big brother bringing him to meet his friends. Gordan describes these occasions as "some of the happiest times I can remember" and while Gordan says "but there weren't many times like that", he goes on to tell about the bed time stories Denny would tell him and how he loved them. I think that Gordan is greatly affected by the loss of his big brother, just like his parents, but he is unwilling to accept this because his brother got more attention than him, and Gordan is confused that despite this, he still loved and cared for his brother deeply.
Gordan is a troubled, but pretty good kid, and as this book develops, I really think he could become really cool. Kind of like Andy.
As a narrator, I have to agree with Nick, that for the most part, he is pretty reliable. Yeah he does exaggerate in some parts, just like Nick said, with the drinking and his parents "shunning" him. However, he is a kid, and we've got to remember that, just like with Holden in Catcher in the Rye (yeah that's right, connections). I think that although to us he seems to be exaggerating, to him, some of the things he talks about might seem real. Like the title "Fall from Innocence" suggests, Gordie is sheltered by his youth and hasn't really begun to understand the real world. He is a little out of touch with reality, because of his young age.
As for Gordie as a character, I don't think Gordie is immature. Of course, he's still a twelve year old kid, which is going to bring some immaturity. However, for his age, I think Gordie is pretty mature, definitely the most down-to-earth kid in his group. For example, like Andrew said, Teddy tries to jump in front of the train and Gordie holds him back. Although the fact that he is still a kid causes Gordie to do some stupid stuff, he is definitely the character who stops the rest of the kids from getting in too far over their heads.
Yeah, but I think Gordie is an alright guy. Andy is still a cool guy, but Gordie is OK.
I disagree with Nick and agree with Anthony about Gordon exaggerating his narrations. He's a wild kid with wild friends, and what he says about his parents seems totally believable. Gordon and his friends use the f-word every five seconds, so saying "pass the goddamn potatoes" doesn't sound very exaggerated at all. The fact that Gordon's parents ignore him is believable too, and there are reasons why this is so. First of all, the death of Gordon's brother must have had a significant impact on his parents, and it seems like his parents loved his brother more than they loved Gordon, as did a few other people (like the shop owner who tried to rip Gordon off). Also, Gordon's parents' behavior isn't very bad compared to the other kids' parents. When compared with how Teddy's father pressed Teddy's face to the stove, Gordon's parents' treatment of Gordon doesn't sound the least bit exaggerated.
I agree with Andrew and disagree with Anthony regarding whether or not Gordon understands how his parents feel about Dennis's death. Gordon barely knew Dennis, and he said that they were never too close. On the other hand, Dennis was Gordon's parents' first child after many miscarriages, and he was a nice, well-liked kid. Gordon could not have understood the powerful bond his parents had with his brother, especially since Gordon never had a great relationship with either. Also, it seems like Gordon's "testing" with his parents at dinner demonstrates how Gordon doesn't know how his parents feel. Gordon's parents most likely ignore him because of the impact of Dennis's death. If Gordon understood how his parents felt, he would not try to get his parents to pay attention to him by angering them.
Gordon sort of reminds me of Andy, in that they are both pretty cool guys. I think Andy is a bit cooler, but Gordon is almost as cool.
@Alex I'm almost positive that Gordon tried to get his parents' attention by angering them before Dennis died, so this doesn't seem like a very good argument to use to support that he doesn't understand how his parents feel after his death. He could easily have wanted the attention and done anything to get it before Dennis died, and then after Dennis died, realized how his parents felt and not done this again.
Even if that is true, he still cannot fully understand how his parents feel. You're ignoring the fact that Gordon actually admitted to not knowing his brother well. Do you think Dennis was valued more by his parents or a brother that he barely interacted with?
Also, there are many examples of Gordon feeling a little bitterness whenever it came to the relationship between his parents and Dennis, before and after Dennis' death. This shows that Gordon was not very close with Dennis while he was alive and not very sensitive to his parents when Dennis died. When Dennis graduated, Gordon stayed home and drank wine. After Dennis died, Gordon referred to his family as "fucked-up" (excuse me). That doesn't sound like he's very sensitive to what his parents went through, both to start the family and in coping with Dennis' death.
As I was reading I noticed that Gordon actually still uses the "test" on his parents (after Dennis's death). Once he gets home his mother expresses her sorrow at not seeing Dennis in the mornings and Gordon says that it must be a "bitch". His mother does not notice.
I think that, for the most part, Gordie is reliable. However, on some of the things about his life, I think he's exaggerating. He explains on pages 310 and 311 on mine and Montgomery's books how he interacts with his parents, or rather, how he doesn't. At a young age, he asked his parents to "pass those goddamn spuds" and nobody paid attention to him. His mother talked to his brother about his Aunt calling for them. Later comes another slightly unbelievable story. He mentions that when his brother was fourteen, he was four. So, when his brother graduated high school, he was eighteen, making Gordie eight. Gordie says that he stayed home and drank a half bottle of cheap wine. At eight years old, I really doubt that Gordie drank a half bottle of cheap wine.
ReplyDeleteEven though he's at least somewhat reliable as a narrator, I think he's a bit troubled in that he just wants to be accepted. His parents, if what he said is at least somewhat true, didn't pay much attention to him. Perhaps all they really did was pass the butter at dinnertime. And maybe he didn't drink when he was eight, but by the time a few years had gone by maybe he tried a sip or a bit more. Either way, that, combined with his frequent swearing, makes me believe that he's an immature person who is just trying to fit in with the crowd. His group of friends aren't the smartest bunch in the world, so that doesn't help make Gordie a good kid.
Overall, I'd say that Gordie isn't really a cool guy. Kinda sorta. Not like Andy. Andy's a pretty cool guy.
I think that Gordan is just one of those average kids. His life is equally affected by his friends and family. Like any kid, he wanted a lot of attention, so maybe he had gottem more than he said, but it didnt seem like enough to him. His brother was going into college when Gordan was only in grade school. Naturally, his parents would spend a bit more attention to the older brother
ReplyDeleteI wouldnt say that Gordon was too immature. Hanging out with his friends made him do some pretty dumb stuff, but I think that he is a good kid on the inside. Like when he pulled Teddy back from the train. He seems accepted into his group of friends, so I dont see any trouble with acceptence. All of the kids had problems with family, it seemed back then, and compared with them, Gordan didnt have it too bad. He probably just doesnt understand the impact of his brother's death has had on his parents. He is still only a kid, and doesnt understand much. He is naturally going to be a little immature. Despite all the bad influences and events in his life, Gordan seems to have come out all right, so far, and has a decent idea of what's wrong and right.
Even though Gordan is a decent kid, there's no way he can compare to Andy. Andy was just a cool guy all around
I'm going to have to say I disagree with Nick because I think that Gordan does not exaggerate with his stories. While Nick seems to feel that him asking his parents to "pass those goddamn spuds" is impossible, I think that kids often try to push there parents to see what they can get away with, which is exactly what Gordan said he was doing. While it may not be something like "goddamn spuds, it could be as simple as saying crap, shut up, I hate you, etc. and seeing how one's parents react.
ReplyDeleteI find it interesting that Andrew pointed out how he doesn't feel that Gordan understands the effect that his brother's death has had on Gordan's parents. This interests me because I think Andrew is completely wrong, and I believe the exact opposite. I think that Gordan knows exactly how his parents feel, but he is hiding this from the reader, and also from his friends, and even himself. Gordan loved his brother and can vividly remember a scene of his big brother bringing him to meet his friends. Gordan describes these occasions as "some of the happiest times I can remember" and while Gordan says "but there weren't many times like that", he goes on to tell about the bed time stories Denny would tell him and how he loved them. I think that Gordan is greatly affected by the loss of his big brother, just like his parents, but he is unwilling to accept this because his brother got more attention than him, and Gordan is confused that despite this, he still loved and cared for his brother deeply.
Gordan is a troubled, but pretty good kid, and as this book develops, I really think he could become really cool. Kind of like Andy.
As a narrator, I have to agree with Nick, that for the most part, he is pretty reliable. Yeah he does exaggerate in some parts, just like Nick said, with the drinking and his parents "shunning" him. However, he is a kid, and we've got to remember that, just like with Holden in Catcher in the Rye (yeah that's right, connections). I think that although to us he seems to be exaggerating, to him, some of the things he talks about might seem real. Like the title "Fall from Innocence" suggests, Gordie is sheltered by his youth and hasn't really begun to understand the real world. He is a little out of touch with reality, because of his young age.
ReplyDeleteAs for Gordie as a character, I don't think Gordie is immature. Of course, he's still a twelve year old kid, which is going to bring some immaturity. However, for his age, I think Gordie is pretty mature, definitely the most down-to-earth kid in his group. For example, like Andrew said, Teddy tries to jump in front of the train and Gordie holds him back. Although the fact that he is still a kid causes Gordie to do some stupid stuff, he is definitely the character who stops the rest of the kids from getting in too far over their heads.
Yeah, but I think Gordie is an alright guy. Andy is still a cool guy, but Gordie is OK.
I disagree with Nick and agree with Anthony about Gordon exaggerating his narrations. He's a wild kid with wild friends, and what he says about his parents seems totally believable. Gordon and his friends use the f-word every five seconds, so saying "pass the goddamn potatoes" doesn't sound very exaggerated at all. The fact that Gordon's parents ignore him is believable too, and there are reasons why this is so. First of all, the death of Gordon's brother must have had a significant impact on his parents, and it seems like his parents loved his brother more than they loved Gordon, as did a few other people (like the shop owner who tried to rip Gordon off). Also, Gordon's parents' behavior isn't very bad compared to the other kids' parents. When compared with how Teddy's father pressed Teddy's face to the stove, Gordon's parents' treatment of Gordon doesn't sound the least bit exaggerated.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Andrew and disagree with Anthony regarding whether or not Gordon understands how his parents feel about Dennis's death. Gordon barely knew Dennis, and he said that they were never too close. On the other hand, Dennis was Gordon's parents' first child after many miscarriages, and he was a nice, well-liked kid. Gordon could not have understood the powerful bond his parents had with his brother, especially since Gordon never had a great relationship with either. Also, it seems like Gordon's "testing" with his parents at dinner demonstrates how Gordon doesn't know how his parents feel. Gordon's parents most likely ignore him because of the impact of Dennis's death. If Gordon understood how his parents felt, he would not try to get his parents to pay attention to him by angering them.
Gordon sort of reminds me of Andy, in that they are both pretty cool guys. I think Andy is a bit cooler, but Gordon is almost as cool.
@Alex
ReplyDeleteI'm almost positive that Gordon tried to get his parents' attention by angering them before Dennis died, so this doesn't seem like a very good argument to use to support that he doesn't understand how his parents feel after his death. He could easily have wanted the attention and done anything to get it before Dennis died, and then after Dennis died, realized how his parents felt and not done this again.
Even if that is true, he still cannot fully understand how his parents feel. You're ignoring the fact that Gordon actually admitted to not knowing his brother well. Do you think Dennis was valued more by his parents or a brother that he barely interacted with?
ReplyDeleteAlso, there are many examples of Gordon feeling a little bitterness whenever it came to the relationship between his parents and Dennis, before and after Dennis' death. This shows that Gordon was not very close with Dennis while he was alive and not very sensitive to his parents when Dennis died. When Dennis graduated, Gordon stayed home and drank wine. After Dennis died, Gordon referred to his family as "fucked-up" (excuse me). That doesn't sound like he's very sensitive to what his parents went through, both to start the family and in coping with Dennis' death.
As I was reading I noticed that Gordon actually still uses the "test" on his parents (after Dennis's death). Once he gets home his mother expresses her sorrow at not seeing Dennis in the mornings and Gordon says that it must be a "bitch". His mother does not notice.
ReplyDelete